| User | Post |
|
4:30 pm June 16, 2010
| Twitchy67
| | |
| booba | posts 54 | |
|
|
Situation: satellite tourney, 36 paid equally and 37th gets a small amount of cash. 42/43 left. Hero (the person I'm arguing with) is in the bb with q10, has slightly more than 10k I think…she was in 8th place anyways. Blinds 300/600 CO open shoves for 1250 (1 extra bet), small blind folds. Hero snap calls, loses tok4. She says the snap call was the right move, I say no way. You're not trying to win this one, you're trying to place 36th or better. She says 'yes, but placing 36th means taking out shorties, it's an insta-call'. I maintain if it's less than a blind more its an insta call, but in this case, with q10 nuh uh. Shorty will shove with any ace, any king both of which have her crushed. Let one of the many donks take the shorty out, and coast to the prize at this stage of the game.
Turns out that next hand she open shoved with aa and lost to a snap call kj which crippled her, and she went out before the bubble, but that's moot, really. In a tourney where chips are important, I call with q10 against a shorty every time. But when it's top 36 paid equally, nope. I'm only playing the 4 biggest hands til the bubble bursts. Am I wrong?
|
|
|
4:35 pm June 16, 2010
| Street3
| | Tulsa, Oklahoma | |
| wife..k | posts 210 |  
|
|
|
I agree with you. Since top 36 paid equally, i'm 8th in chips, im on sitout mode…let the others deal with it. lol
|
$50 > BANKWIRE > DECLINED > DOJ > LOL
|
|
|
4:51 pm June 16, 2010
| 4Get 2 4Bet Me
| | |
| TPT Mod | posts 577 |  
|
|
|
Damn, Street beat me to it.
All I was going to say was "insta-sit-out"
|
|
|
|
|
9:28 pm June 16, 2010
| CoolWhipFlea
| | Los Angeles, CA | |
| TPT Admin | posts 172 |  
|
|
|
In "Making the Final Table" by Erick Lindgren, E-dawg has a great section talking about playing sattelites, and how their strategy (late game) is inherently different from regular tournament strategy. In regular tournament strategy, where the prizes are typically top heavy (most of the monies are paid in the top couple of places) there is a NEED to chip gather. In order to win, you need all of the chips, so you need to take some gambles at certain points to get them.
Satellites are the polar opposite. Especially satellites that pay the number of entries as the one that you've mentioned. Hero is under ZERO obligation to bust the other players. In fact, its just the opposite. I wouldn't fault hero from Sitting out in this instance, and folding their way into the money…which is the same if you have all of the chips, or 1 chip.
Stack sizes are only relevant pertaining to where you are at the bubble. Do you have enough chips to get through, as the prize for 1st place pays the entry into the tournament…same as the other 35 places that pay. But the cost for 36th and under is dramatically reduced, and therefore, a loss if you don't get at least 35th.
I MAY call with AA in this spot if its against an opponent that has less than 20% of my chip count. Otherwise, Hero is chipped so well, the only way that they can lose is by entering into pots with other players. Folding is the best way to play in this spot, and let the shorter stacks continue to bust each other. Or perhaps a medium stack. But I'd avoid confrontation at all costs here. There's just no sense in it.
And BTW, look at what happened for getting involved. Villian gets healthy, and hero goes bust.
|
|
|
|
|
7:17 am June 17, 2010
| cprpoker
| | BOSTON | |
| TPT Admin | posts 811 |  
|
|
|
We discussed this on the TPT Live show a while back but in regards to folding AA/KK preflop. I think the scenario was very similar, top x spots pay the same satellite token or prize and you are comfortably within the money pre bubble. Raise, shove, shove in front of you with AA. For sake of argument, the two shovers have about 40% of your stack. I'd dump AA.
|
"You’re better than him …maybe not by a lot, but, a little. You’re the patron saint of the totally
f*cked, you’re completely toxic, there’s nothing you can’t kill. You’re the violator. You can be the hero."
|
|
|
7:22 am June 17, 2010
| 4Get 2 4Bet Me
| | |
| TPT Mod | posts 577 |  
|
|
|
Post edited 7:27 am – June 17, 2010 by 4Get 2 4Bet Me
If you know you are almost guaranteed a seat/token/prize by sitting out, what would be the argument for calling a shove with any hand?
There is none.
EDIT: If I have like 10x the avg stack, and it is approaching the bubble, and I have AA, and a short stack shoves, I might play sheriff just to get things moving. But I wouldn't risk more than that like 5-10% of my stack if I have already (essentially) won.
|
|
|
|
|
7:28 am June 17, 2010
| cprpoker
| | BOSTON | |
| TPT Admin | posts 811 |  
|
|
|
4Get 2 4Bet Me said:
If you know you are almost guaranteed a seat/token/prize by sitting out, what would be the argument for calling a shove with any hand?
There is none.
That's what OP's debate opponent doesn't understand.
|
"You’re better than him …maybe not by a lot, but, a little. You’re the patron saint of the totally
f*cked, you’re completely toxic, there’s nothing you can’t kill. You’re the violator. You can be the hero."
|
|